JDAM GBU-38/31 envelope too restrictive.

The JDAM release envelope is kind of incomplete. In RL, once the tgt coords are in the system, the weapon can be released regardless of attitude of aircraft or weapon to the target. As long height and range are with in envelope, weapon can be released and it will guide. in DCS A-10C, if aircraft is over target or is front of target (target is behind aircraft) JDAM is outside of man rel. envelope. That is in incorrect. JDAM is combined GPS/INS guided, it can be released when target is behind the aircraft. Just like artillery Excalibur rounds, that can be fired on a anballistic trajectory. They use fins to guide the round into enemy in defilade (reverse slope or behind cover or concealment). RL newest versions, from Israel and in limited use in USAF/NAVY/USMC are tripple guided. By combined GPS/INS/LASER guidance and have very unrestrictive release envelopes. But those are not modeled in DCS and thats a good thing. But the versions that are modeled are too restrictive.

Your source?

With (small) fins at the back only they don't look that maneuverable really - even less so than their laser guided brethren.

If you go slow and high I think it could turn to get back to its release point eventually. However the major selling point of those is to drop (toss) them at a target from far away and still hit non-moving targets precisely. IIRC there are upgrades with seeker heads for the final phase.

There's an also ER version with proper wings though that looks more like a cruise missile than a bomb which can probably hit you home field from fence in ;) (~50 miles range from 35000ft)

The JDAM release envelope is kind of incomplete. In RL, once the tgt coords are in the system, the weapon can be released regardless of attitude of aircraft or weapon to the target. As long height and range are with in envelope, weapon can be released and it will guide. in DCS A-10C, if aircraft is over target or is front of target (target is behind aircraft) JDAM is outside of man rel. envelope. That is in incorrect. JDAM is combined GPS/INS guided, it can be released when target is behind the aircraft. Just like artillery Excalibur rounds, that can be fired on a anballistic trajectory. They use fins to guide the round into enemy in defilade (reverse slope or behind cover or concealment). RL newest versions, from Israel and in limited use in USAF/NAVY/USMC are tripple guided. By combined GPS/INS/LASER guidance and have very unrestrictive release envelopes. But those are not modeled in DCS and thats a good thing. But the versions that are modeled are too restrictive.

I Agree, as is in dcs world its kind of a boring weapon as it cant do what its real life self can. Hopefully its aspect of weapon improvement that is on the list of changes in the future.

Your source?

I don't know what his source is, but he's correct. And the real JDAM can do a lot more not mentioned in the OP as well.

Much of it has already been discussed in these forums a few times over the years. The short version is, the DCS JDAM looks like a JDAM, but that's where the similarity ends.

I don't know what his source is, but he's correct. And the real JDAM can do a lot more not mentioned in the OP as well.

 

Much of it has already been discussed in these forums a few times over the years. The short version is, the DCS JDAM looks like a JDAM, but that's where the similarity ends.

im realy curious what the real JDAM can and the DCS one not someone who can enlighten me?

im realy curious what the real JDAM can and the DCS one not someone who can enlighten me?

for example multiple bombs each at different target at once

for example multiple bombs each at different target at once

I know what you mean, but still, you can drop one, switch waypoint, drop next and so on

But indeed, that would be more usefull

im realy curious what the real JDAM can and the DCS one not someone who can enlighten me?

Your starter for one......

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1994508&postcount=113

for example multiple bombs each at different target at once

That's part of the pre-briefed (PB) functionality, which isn't used in the A-10C.

The A-10C can however make use of pattern release functionality in reality. Pattern release allows for employing multiple JDAMs against a single target coordinate which will land in a specific impact pattern (e.g. two in a line or four in a diamond around the target).

In flight brief targets can come in via Joint Data Link from JTAC on scene, or FiST team.Not sure how one would go about assigning individual target to individual JDAMs for multiple release, in DCS. However MHO is that in DCS A-10C, platform has to get awfully close to target for man. release. Granted that A-10 is not F-15E and connot go as fast, but a GBU-38 should be able to be lobbed from 10-12 nm slant dist. from tgt at 20K AGL. Otherwise with Tonguska and Tor, ALQ-131 or no ALQ-131, drop as many chaff/flare as you wish have have ECM pod scream, those two will connect with your plane. ALQ-131 seems ok against anything SAM1. No matter how much jinking, SAM2 systems are nearly impossible to escape. Hope someone posts a secret, that does not make use of allied SEAD flight.

That's part of the pre-briefed (PB) functionality, which isn't used in the A-10C.

 

The A-10C can however make use of pattern release functionality in reality. Pattern release allows for employing multiple JDAMs against a single target coordinate which will land in a specific impact pattern (e.g. two in a line or four in a diamond around the target).

Eddie are any of the advanced functions available in game?

Sierra

Nope.

With (small) fins at the back only they don't look that maneuverable really - even less so than their laser guided brethren.

Just by eyeballing a comparison, it appears to have more fin control area than a GBU-12, which guide using the front fins. Compared to a GBU-54, it uses the same control fins. GBU-54 was made for and is preferred for moving targets vice a -12.

This is one area where Falcon BMS did it better; the INS/JDAMs.....the ability to release at a more realistic weapon footprint, off axis releases, ability to select weapon heading at impact, etc.

Another bit of in-game strangeness with the JDAM (at least the GBU-38 model) is that it doesn't gain speed as it falls- it actually decelerates.

I am not 100% certain but it possible that JDAM can use fins to aero-break. There may be an optimal terminal velocity for the weapon to make correction, for optimum accuracy. But could be an issue in DCS.

Vast majority of civilians, without prior military service, don't appreciate the revolution in military tactics that JDAM and Excalibur GPS/INS guided munitions have brought to the battlefield. I am prior service, with US Army as Field Artillery officer, and it amazes me how time honored tactics, of reverse slope positions, defilade, using rubble in MOUT, have been invalidated (for the enemy use) by these munitions. Aircraft releasing muntions that are sideways or in front of targets, artillery rounds that reverse the trajectory to strike enemy otherwise concealed/covered by terrain. Release platforms that never have to come within sight of enemy. Its incredible.

Here is an example that was developed by Israleies, for their infantry fighting in dense MOUT environment. Its quite possible for an infantry squad to fight from one room, with enemy in another room, or in a room of an closein adjoining building. Basically there is 50 meters or less betweem combatants. Alright, take a JDAM munition, as small as possible, 250lb variety, like SDB. Take out the filler and replace with silicate sand. Stick that munition on a Reaper or similar drone, and have it orbit high above the fight.

Have the friendly infantry fix the enemy in place by fire, and get accurate position via military grade GPS (less the one meter). Feed those coords to the weapon and release, such that impact attitude of weapon is nearly vertical. The weapon kinetic energy is enough to wound or kill the enemy by its proximity of impact, of less then 5 meters from enemy position. The impact shrapnel is enough to neutralize the enemy without harm to troops in close contact. There is no detonation. This is not DIME munition, which uses detonation to spread powedered shrapnell. There is no explosive filler. All damage is done via kinetic impact of the weapon and spread of silicate. However to use this tactic. The soldier directing the strike has to be with the troops, must be very accurate under stress of CQB, and have cojones made of titanium. Silicate shrapnell within 5 meters of impact is like millions of XACTO blades.

I am not 100% certain but it possible that JDAM can use fins to aero-break

That probably would not be the case, because only one of the four fins is steerable IIRC :doh:

That probably would not be the case, because only one of the four fins is steerable IIRC :doh:

3 of the four, only one is fixed.

3 of the four, only one is fixed.

Ohhhh! My memory did trick me after all xD

Thank you for clarification :)

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