Which version of the Ka-50 is actually being modelled?

I understand there to be two versions of the Ka-50:

Ka-50A - daytime close-support helicopter

Ka-50N (Ka-50sh) - nighttime capable attack helicopter with FLIR and NVG compatible cockpit.

Now the screenshots seem to be of a Ka-50A (no Samsheet-50 targeting ball), but the cockpit suggests a night-capable helicopter. Also, recent images of the Ka-50 from MAKS have this night-capable equipment (but this may be for export, not for operational Russian Hokums). Could someone clarify what Ka-50 is being modelled?

The Day-Time one of late modifications. The Night Vision Gogles are for flight only.

It can't take part in battle at night.

Would it be so hard to add the FLIR ?

Why add something that the version modelled doesn't equip?

Theoretically you could R-77's on the Su-27, too, since it's 'not hard at all' in the game ;)

Well it must be the night attack version - apart from the external colourscheme being less than optimal for daytime use( :) ), it has the black NVG prepared cockpit and, as one of the published screenshots indicate, NVG functionality modelled.

GGTharos,

Why make a hybrid version with a paint scheme and a cockpit optimised for night time operation, but without the systems functionality to support this?. I agree with 112th_Rossi - either make the full night time version with LLTV or leave it out and make the daytime version(with the blue cockpit) instead.

Theoretically you could R-77's on the Su-27, too, since it's 'not hard at all' in the game

Yes but unless you were to change the cockpit to something that a real R-77 capable version(such as the Su-27SM) has, it wouldnt be realistic and be....a hybrid :) .

Cheers,

- JJ.

Why are you modelling that version?

The targeting system of the version we model is not not very good in night conditions as it has only EO channel.

Then why not model the "baseline" version instead? :)

Also what do you mean by it having only electro-optical channel?. The Ka-50 has the Shkval system like the Su-25T, and as I understand it, the Mercury LLTV pod for this(the Su-25T) is functioning through the Shkval system - i.e. "plugging in" to this and "overriding" the Skhval TV picture with its LLTV ditto when switched on. AFAIK it works in the same way on the Ka-50 with the only difference that the Mercury system is built-in on the Ka-50(?).

Cheers,

- JJ.

The Hokum has either the Shkval or the Mercury (or Samsheet AND Shkval, but that one came later), not both. AFAIK Kamov didn't like the Mercury (which led to the Samsheet) and thus the system never made it onto the few operational Ka-50s anyway.

It does seem strange to model the NVG's just for night-flying and not for night-fighting (not possible due to the lack of a night-capable targetting system, as outlined above). LOMAC is a combatsim, so you're not likely to be flying when you can't fight. OTOH, if that's what the real Ka-50s in Russian service are like then I suppose it's alright.

We model "baseline" version..

I meant the one with the blue cockpit - I personally prefer this :cool: . The black cockpit may be necessary in connection with NVG use at night, but the blue pit appears more orderly and "eye friendly" for daytime operation :)

.. and Ka-50 has not "a-la Mercury" system. ;)

I could swear I have seen information about a Ka-50 with a built-in Mercury LLTV system :confused: .

Cheers,

- JJ.

The Hokum has either the Shkval or the Mercury (or Samsheet AND Shkval, but that one came later), not both.

I see - so the version I am talking about could have been a prototype with only the Mercury system I suppose.

It does seem strange to model the NVG's just for night-flying and not for night-fighting (not possible due to the lack of a night-capable targetting system, as outlined above).

Yes especially because of the bit about cockpit panel colouring I mentioned in my above post :).

LOMAC is a combatsim, so you're not likely to be flying when you can't fight. OTOH, if that's what the real Ka-50s in Russian service are like then I suppose it's alright.

Well I think the ones in operational service have the blue cockpit - but I could be wrong....Olgerd?

Cheers,

- JJ.

Implementation of the NVGs is build around the real thing. The day-only Ka-50 (which seems to be the only one in service, with a possible single exception) does not have a true NVG-compatible cockpit. I'm not even sure that the Ka-50Sh has an NVG capable pit. But yet it IS designed to be used with NVGs for night-time ops (perhaps navigation only as pointed out above). Apparently, the way it works in real life is that the NVGs themselves are set a certain distance away from the pilot's eyes, which allows him to glance down into the cockpit through 'regular vision', but look outside the pit through the NVGs. Very Russian, don't you think? I don't think the color of either the cockpit of the helicopter itself has much to do with this. But I could also be wrong... :) IMO combat ops could be performed with the goggles, but it would be very cumbersome and too risky. Also, is it just me, or can you actually see the 'out of goggle' effect at the edges of the view in the NVG screenshot?

Here's what I think is the NVG model used in the Ka-50:

http://aomz.azov.ru/skosok.htm

As for Mercuriy, there's a photo of the first Ka-50 prototype with both of the systems, where the Mercury can be seen above the Shkval system in a separate housing in the nose. As Tridentm said, this was not put into the production versions.

Aside from this, it isn't really clear that there is any standard version of the thing. There's only about 8 operational airframes, many of which are equipped differently and are probably being used as testbeds for new equipment. For example, the model flying at MAKS seems to have the new advanced self-protection system. Also, the Chechen experience no doubt resulted in some modifications to the design. But not likely to all of the airframes.

The Hokum has either the Shkval or the Mercury (or Samsheet AND Shkval, but that one came later), not both. AFAIK Kamov didn't like the Mercury (which led to the Samsheet) and thus the system never made it onto the few operational Ka-50s anyway.

 

It does seem strange to model the NVG's just for night-flying and not for night-fighting (not possible due to the lack of a night-capable targetting system, as outlined above). LOMAC is a combatsim, so you're not likely to be flying when you can't fight. OTOH, if that's what the real Ka-50s in Russian service are like then I suppose it's alright.

Noone said you cant fight at night, without the aid of the Squall camera. Just use it like the plain Su-25.

If the HUD layout of the Shark is anything like the Su-25T, you should be able to drag the designater box around, ground stabilize it, and 'walk' it onto the target without even turning the TV on. Laze, fire, boom.

Ok, it's not totally impossible. However it's a pretty good way to get yourself killed due to patchy SA. Using the Su-25 method means aquiring the target visually and in any half-decent defensive environment this is hard enough to do in broad daylight. You will have great problems at night even with NVGs and I'm sure noone would take that risk in a real life situation (in otherwords it's rather unrealistic).

About the Ka-50 at MAKS with bort 25, interestingly it appears to lack the experimental laser blinding system (?) that was visible on one older photo (the circular attachment points are still visible) while it does seem to have IR missile approach warners.

Fair enough!

Looking forward to it.

I don't think the color of either the cockpit of the helicopter itself has much to do with this. But I could also be wrong... :)

I am pretty sure that it does have a lot to do with this. As I understand it, the black cockpit panels serve the purpose of causing less contrast when shifting from external to cockpit view when using NVGs at night - similarily the light blue cockpit panels you find in most Russian cockpits serve the purpose of reducing the contrast when shifting from external view(blue sky at daytime) to glance at the cockpit instrumentation. Additionally, in daylight a light grey or light blue cockpit panel colour somehow makes the cockpit appear more "orderly" thus easier to distinquish the different gauges from each other at a quick glance.

Black cockpit..

Blue cockpit..

....and I think the external colourscheme of the front Ka-50 in this picture..

....is the more appropriate one for daytime armour hunting :)

As for Mercuriy, there's a photo of the first Ka-50 prototype with both of the systems, where the Mercury can be seen above the Shkval system in a separate housing in the nose. As Tridentm said, this was not put into the production versions.

Aha! - thanks for letting me know that I havent gone completely senile :biggrin: ...I was sure that I had read about a built-in Mercury in combination with the Shkval system. I didnt know that they(Kamov) had removed the Mercury system again for the production version(s) though.

Aside from this, it isn't really clear that there is any standard version of the thing. There's only about 8 operational airframes, many of which are equipped differently and are probably being used as testbeds for new equipment. For example, the model flying at MAKS seems to have the new advanced self-protection system. Also, the Chechen experience no doubt resulted in some modifications to the design. But not likely to all of the airframes.

Yes there seems to be almost as many Ka-50 versions as there are airframes :)

Cheers,

- JJ.

Now most of Ka-50 wich are in service was upgraded to night compatible cockpit and got ABRIS+GPS. But the targeting system still have only limited capability of night-time conditions employment. Actually the developers of Shkval calls it "all-day-of-time-capable" (KAPK in russian) system but in any case it still have limited capabilities at night.

Ok I see - thanks for the information :) .

Cheers,

- JJ.

....and I think the external colourscheme of the front Ka-50 in this picture..

 

....is the more appropriate one for daytime armour hunting :)

And the other one is appropiate for a movie...and nowhere else. ;)

Oh, and the "production" ka-50 (bort number 018) has the capability to carry Igla anti-air missile.

edit: Oh, and the Vikhr launch pylons should be able to deflect downwards 15 degrees from the normal on the Ka-50

ED, не подскажите где вы нашли инфо про систему аварийного покидания К-37-800? Обискал весь интернет, но ничего конкретного не нашол.

BUMP!

Sorry to resurrect this old thread but.....(ok, I'm not the least bit sorry)...

Although its 2 years ago now this thread mentions that BS is not night-capable (has NVG etc but no night-attack capability with Mercury pod or similar)...

Now that we are 2 years on...and so are the actual BS prototypes....will the BS being modelled be night-attack capable or just the day-time version?

Thanks in advance of anyone (ED/testers) are allowed to say.