sooo annoying. hate thread. read before its gone!

man this is gonna get locked but whatever, i cant stand the people over at frugals falcon community all they do is bash the sh!t out of lockon. u all gotta go over there and just spam lockon threads or something. they b!itch and whine about lockon and then just lock threads whenever someone tries to defend it. i HATE them. they think their game is so superior what a bunch of f**K tards. we need to stand up for our sim!

Pfft, let the babies have their toy.

We'll just enjoy our sim! :P

man this is gonna get locked but whatever, i cant stand the people over at frugals falcon community all they do is bash the sh!t out of lockon. u all gotta go over there and just spam lockon threads or something. they b!itch and whine about lockon and then just lock threads whenever someone tries to defend it. i HATE them. they think their game is so superior what a bunch of f**K tards. we need to stand up for our sim!

How old are you?

19

Pfft, let the babies have their toy.

 

We'll just enjoy our sim! :P

I agree. There is really nothing we can do.

You can drop out of the falcon community.

What do they say exactally?

I've never understood the whole "this game is better than that game..."

They're games!! Build a bridge...

Ya, it's a mater of opinion. It really doesn't matter.

there's quite a lot of narrow-minded people over at frugals, they keep calling lock on an "arcade" game which is pushing it quite a bit. Both game are pretty good, key words, both are games- that's it. They don't have to take it too seriously. ;)

there's quite a lot of narrow-minded people over at frugals, they keep calling lock on an "arcade" game which is pushing it quite a bit. Both game are pretty good, key words, both are games- that's it. They don't have to take it too seriously. ;)

My point exactally!

Well, I fly F4:AF a lot and I learned following things:

- switchology doesn't mean anything to a sim, flight dynamics, wind, and turbulence do. Learning the F-16 cockpit was a snap, took me a day or so. I'm still trying to land an Su-25T in crosswind though.

- whether AI is simple or smart, it is always dumb.

- dynamic campaigns are nice games. So are chess, monopoly, tetris, ...

- uglyness is a reality, F4:AF 3D and damage models learned me how real this can be.

- the F-16C block 52 CCIP is an absolute dream, and we badly need it in a real sim like Lockon. :D Damn I envy those Polish AF pilots!!!!

here One example starting at the 9th post

http://forums.frugalsworld.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=119061

theres many more. basically anytime someone mentions something they find difficult in falcon the responses are "go play lockon" and then the lockon bashing just starts..every time

i bet no one at frugals plays it because none of them have systems good enough :D. falcon u only need like a win98 system

God, they are so god damn biased!

boys will be boys

People are fanatics, they criticise real world fanatics but then they sucumb to the same with their hobies and other activities. Its human nature.

The guys on Frugals that made that controller company ban on public sales of their high fidelity HOTAS resembles the likes of Holy Inquisition on a smaller scale. No one likes to have their status messed arround with ideas from different angles, nor re-think the "facts".

I think everybody just wants to feel like they're closer to the 'real thing' than everyone else.

A friend of mine (not a pilot or anything, my flying just rubs off him a bit) was quite proud after taking off, completing a mission and landing in F-22 Lightning III. I smugly replied "If you can even fire-up the engines in Lock-On, I'l actually salute you". He wasn't hurt or anything, we just had a laugh about it, but I realised after what a stupid thing it was to say.

Although F-22 is a completely different ball game, he's not a student pilot, so he was particularly proud of his achievement. Just like we are... and just like they are.

Nobody wants to admit they're using the 'dumbed down' version or 'not quite the real thing'. Even though the differences appear to be debatable.

The biggest difference I see in the two sims is in the cockpit realism to the user, for example in Falcon4, if you learn to ramp start it from a dead engine without using the keyboard at all or any HOTAS "special" (non flight standard) mapped buttons, but using the mouse as if it were your hand as you rotate around setting your controls in this manner, flipping switches, etc..., and then do the same setting your munitions on your MFDs just after takeoff based upon the intelligence received during the briefing and your own intuitions, as well as the rest of the items in the cockpit... all while using the mouse as if it were your own hands in a real jet knowing where to go to set everything, turning knobs etc... in this sense this is where the Falcon4 crowd do have a valid point in realism. Once you learn to do this in that sim, then you can do it in a real flight simulator (because I have many times) as well as in a real jet. Compared to LockOn where we map our controls to the keyboard and the stick to turn the lights on, off, set munitions, turn the jet on, etc... The method that we do this in lockon is not similar to a real flight simulator or real jet, example: if we sat a person that has a perfectly mapped keyboard and HOTAS from lockon in any of the jet simulators, most likely if the instructor said, Please turn the lights on or turn the jet engines on, we would be looking around trying to find a keyboard most likely.

This is not to belittle LockOn, I love it and it has great graphics, but compared with a workable, clickable 3D Pit, it just adds fuel to what they say about Falcon4 compared to LockOn. This is just my personal opinion.

Basically it becomes a difference of opinion, and as others have said and we need to remember it is a game. Both are fun, and one may feel more "real" than the other to different people for different reasons. What matters most is how you yourself feel about what you choose to fly, and to be thankful that we all have choices we get to make.

Flight model discussions are out of my league since I have never flown anything real except a Cessna, and to me some people that say/act like they know of flight models have barely flown on jet airliners commercially it seems from the way they conduct themselves.

So I can't judge who has THE better flight model.

wait till black shark comes out ...

clickable knob happy cockpit is a understatement ...lol

even after Black Shark is out, they are going to say "its a helo sim, not a fighter sim so it can't compare to F4" or "it still doesn't have dynamic campaign" or "it has starforce"...bla bla bla.

I like how Mower babbles on about 'weaponeering' and 'cockpit workload' , the 'hard core falconner' and all that fun stuff; I suppose when you're pounding virtual mud you have to have -something- to occupy your brain with and it may as well be clerical work. :devil_2:

That's not to say that F4 doesn't have a lot of desireable features; it does - but somehow it ain't good enouhg for some of us and that burns them. :D

I've said it a bunch - it's like the old Ford vs. Chevy mentality. Or food. Just because someone likes raw tomatoes and I don't doesn't mean they're a bad person. I'm not going to belittle them for that choice, it's all a matter of personal taste and preference.

Why what they like would matter to me at all (and vice-versa) is a complete mystery.

I see your point IguanaKing, and no I know it isnt personal to me. But in all honesty, I can get lost in my own workplace if the lights are all out, haha. At least leave the lights on.

Agreed Arthonon.

As for me , I try and keep a healthy look at it and recommend to others, fly both sims, learn both very well and enjoy the merits that each bring to the table, then most importantly, YOU will be happy.

We all have prefrences, they rightfully have theirs, though i dont think they have the rite to dis lockon because of their opinion, they could atleast respect it, solet them have it. we have our opinions. however, we dont go arround dissing their game. In short, i think we can take sanctuary in this fact.

just be glad that there are more stubborn people over at frugals and not here, people like mower or ara talk like idiots on those forum.

Frankly, I think people who treat a sim like its their girlfriend are just cutting themselves off from a vast range of possibilities. I don't blame people for having preferences, because no sim can be all things to all people...but when it goes as far as bashing or belittling others for not liking your sim, or liking another...well...time to get a life. :D

Guess I gotta give others some rep more often, 'cause I can't give it to ya even though you deserve it.

I fly LOMAC & not Falcon - heresy, but I'd like the missiles and radar pulled out of Falcon and put into LOMAC. It would make me happier. I could care less about the switches though, they can keep those.:noexpression:

Take the same situation, put a Falcon 4 pilot in that cockpit, turn off the lights, and see what happens. Neither of these sims will simulate the actual, physical location of a switch, so the Falcon 4 pilot, in that situation, would be just as lost. ;)

 

Now, to address the topic. The paragraph below isn't aimed at you, H4RM, so please don't think that it is.:

 

Let them say what they will at Frugals, they're no more qualified to comment on FMs and "realism" than most of us sim junkies. Frankly, I think people who treat a sim like its their girlfriend are just cutting themselves off from a vast range of possibilities. I don't blame people for having preferences, because no sim can be all things to all people...but when it goes as far as bashing or belittling others for not liking your sim, or liking another...well...time to get a life. :D

+1 and . . . . .

You can almost guarantee there's a thread at Frugals that points at this one, in which F4 pilots will be busy slapping themselves on the back at how rubbish we are and how Godly they are.

edit - insert some kind of comment concerning Black Shark having the combination of AFM and switchology which will be a shock to both sides here :D