Tactics and advice

I've been playing 1.02 since it pretty much came out, and can do fairly well online. Now with 1.1, I completly suck. It seems i have no situational awarness with the russian radar. I get locked, I break the lock and next thing you know I'm dead. My missles never hit. Things happen so much faster now. The ECM jamming throws me off. I'm just getting a bit frustrated now.

Anyone have tips or can point me in the right direction?

Thanks in advance

Welcome to the non-arcade Russian Radar. Jamming is pretty frustrating for us Eagle drivers, too ;)

Alright, firstly, are you absolutely certain that you've broken the lock? Or do you just think so because your plane is in a roll and the RWR's out of limits to receive the warning? An active missile could still be hounding you when you roll out, and it may reacquire you shortly after having acquired yoru chaff, which may give you nearly zero warning time.

Are you using your jammer? The missile might home in on it silently ...

You need to maintain lock to ensure that your missile hit if they're of the SARH variety. With R-77's the rules change a little, but there's a datalink for both; recapture the target and you'll recapture the missile, and the missile may still hit.

Against a jamming target, your missile will have much less effect - especially against a 'smart jamming' target, who may be strobing his ECM to completely throw you off.

Problems with finding stuff on radar? As I recall, SNP/TWS on the red birds is a one-bar scan mode. Don't use it for searching ... use SCAN. Set your 'target expected range' and then work the expected elevation to the correct elevation - above all, do this calcmly. You'll have to be doing a lot of out-thinking and out-guessing now.

Long ranger TWS shots are ansty - you get no launch warning ... you get lock and launch warning only when that AMRAAM goes active. Not pretty, give you very little (but enough) reaction time.

So, make sure that you do your F-Pole after firing and you get to an altitude where you can maneuver well ... that's probably the biggest trick. Practice dodging incoming missiles while retaining lokck with your own - this isn't always possible, obviously, but it's doable.

Hope this helped some.

Thanks. That was pretty helpful.

I was rolling out to break the lock so the RWR doesn't receive. So that would be the reason i still get hit.

How do you know a targets expected range when they are using ECM. I think that's my problem. I have no idea how far or close the enemy is?

I'm F-polling like a mad man while keeping my lock, but I usually end up getting shot down before my missle hits.

I'll keep at it though. I'm so addicted to this game. It's awesome. It's just going to take a bit more time with 1.1 I think.

Thanks again.

Well, keep in mind that the red birds ARE supposed to be pretty challenging in terms of avionics :D

Anyway, let's see ...

About your F-Pole - perhaps your enemy is dodging, but you're not? You have to describe the circumstances a little better ... also, how do you know that your missile still ahsn't reached him? By all means, with longer F-Pole, it should get there faster ... jsut make sure you launch from a respectable altitude at first, to allow it to loft up to where the air's thinner and it won't lose much speed. That could explain your missile being slower/shorter ranged if it flies at lower altitudes.

Also, you can't rely on a single missile - singles are easy to beat. But one thing to do is launch yrou HoJ's, especially if you can tell how far the target it. In the red birds, this is typically easy if you know what type of aircraft is painting you:

Look at your RWR, the power bar should give you rough distane to the emitter, depenant on the emitter's power level (so a Mig would show the same power level as a Su-27 at HALF the distance, since its radar is weaker), which will allow you to set the expected range.

You can also use other cues to judge range - eg. if you go in without jammer on against someone with SARH missiles, then once they fire you know that you're in range, more or less. You can fire HoJ at that point and break away. They might never even see it coming, or perhaps they really do know what they're doing and they'll evade it like it was never there - you always WILL have to out-guess the other guy now, basically ... it comes down to battle of both skills and wits.

And yeah, keep at it. Practice makes perfect!

I've got a quick question. If you had two pilots with equal skills, and both capable of getting the most from there plane. Do you think the SU-27 or F-15 has the advantage as 1.1 stands right now?

Su27 hands down.

Russian birds get lock and launch tone from the f-15 in HOJ the f-15 does not.

Tws is neutered due to burn through at 13nm its useless.

A mig 29 can lock a target at 40km in vertical scan mode so can the 33 and 27.

Game needs to be patched immediately just hope we don wait for 6 months like we did with 1.0

If you're running with your jammer on, sure ... if you have it off, you can counter with a HoJ shot when they fire, dodge the missile and come back on them - it's not 'hands down' at /all/. Once closer, the AMRAAMs become far more lethal as well, while allowing a greater escape window to the 15.

Once closer, the AMRAAMs become far more lethal as well, while allowing a greater escape window to the 15.

Not true GGT ... I've flown dozens of 27 v 15 missions and most end up with a 'winder kill because even 120s shot at 8 miles turn AWAY from the target just before impact. You fire 3-4, the result is the same ... This and the statement you made re: data-link means that the 120s is broken ... I flew a 4 Mig-23 v 1 15 today, locked up each mig, fired 1,2,3,4 and they all went after the same Mig ... totally pointless!

1.1 is great for A2G ... but for me, 1.02 was better A2A ... sorry

I dont have 1.1 but I have a MOD'ed 1.1 demo and havent seen none of the AMRAAM's dumbed down perfomance.

Some complaint its too short ranged, while others say you can still shoot at 20 miles with no problems.

It is my suspicion that the first are shooting from low altitude, and the later do it from higher altitude, it doenst surprise me.

over 70% of the people fly caps as if they were strike aircraft, i.e. down low in the mountains, while those flying high, lock on and fire (rendering all but the highest mountains useless) and the the low flyers complain because they cannot fire back or are hit easely. Usualy they cant even pick up their oponents as they fly outside the radars view cone.

Its not unusual to see some dudes being fired upon and all they do is flying straight (probably franticaly searching for the aircraft thats making the spike) and dump chaff only without manuevering.

I dont have 1.1 but I have a MOD'ed 1.1 demo and havent seen none of the AMRAAM's dumbed down perfomance.

 

Some complaint its too short ranged, while others say you can still shoot at 20 miles with no problems.

It is my suspicion that the first are shooting from low altitude, and the later do it from higher altitude, it doenst surprise me.

 

over 70% of the people fly caps as if they were strike aircraft, i.e. down low in the mountains, while those flying high, lock on and fire (rendering all but the highest mountains useless) and the the low flyers complain because they cannot fire back or are hit easely. Usualy they cant even pick up their oponents as they fly outside the radars view cone.

Its not unusual to see some dudes being fired upon and all they do is flying straight (probably franticaly searching for the aircraft thats making the spike) and dump chaff only without manuevering.

Well, I usually fly at 40k ... above contrails ... AMRAAM does have a longer LA range ... this is true. BUT, it is of no use! You can't engage multiple targets AND the longer range shots are easily dodged or turn away from the target when within a few 100' ... the extra range is worthless ...

Well, I usually fly at 40k ... above contrails ... AMRAAM does have a longer LA range ... this is true. BUT, it is of no use! You can't engage multiple targets AND the longer range shots are easily dodged or turn away from the target when within a few 100' ... the extra range is worthless ...

But thats was already the case in 1.02, they turn away and its range becomes short.

There are a lot of people who dont know to dodge, even more now that the AMRAAM shots in tws mode dont give warning untill they become active. dont use stt youl give your intentions away as the missile is shot.

But thats was already the case in 1.02, they turn away and its range becomes short.

There are a lot of people who dont know to dodge, even more now that the AMRAAM shots in tws mode dont give warning untill they become active. dont use stt youl give your intentions away as the missile is shot.

Ok, I posted about dumb 120s in the demo ....

Go 1 v 1 Su-27 (expert), ECM 6 x AA10s ... him at 20k', you at 40k' 60miles apart ... fire at burnthough ... and keep firing after each missile misses. If you watch the 120s (f6) you can watch them turn away when very close to the target ... you can see the vapour trails as they turn ... THE WRONG WAY! I don't know whether its chaff or better AI or no d/l or what ... but after about 3 shots you are in winder range ... and that still works!

Ok, I posted about dumb 120s in the demo ....

Go 1 v 1 Su-27 (expert), ECM 6 x AA10s ... him at 20k', you at 40k' 60miles apart ... fire at burnthough ... and keep firing after each missile misses. If you watch the 120s (f6) you can watch them turn away when very close to the target ... you can see the vapour trails as they turn ... THE WRONG WAY! I don't know whether its chaff or better AI or no d/l or what ... but after about 3 shots you are in winder range ... and that still works!

OK Kula I did what you instructed me, except I made 4 Su-27's VS me (f-15) in ace setings, heres what I got:

The first attempt I got killed as I tryed to dodge a R-27 the f-15 did reverse manuver inputs! Nice...lol I gess aproaching stall at high altitudes makes the plane do wiked things! wow nicely done! But I failed to get a shot off.

Second mission, I shot in HOJ, indeed the missiles tended to miss more than in 1.02 but I got 1 out of my 8 AMRAAM load.

third mission, I droped from 45000 down to 28000 and waited all targets to apear in TWS, locked each and fired a salvo of AMRAAM's but had to dodge, and got hit. I watched then the AMRAAMs fly 2 hit home 2 missed.

forth mission, did the same as the 3rd, but this time I made a perfect F-pole and waited all missiles to go active and then I dodged...gess what , 3 out of 4 hit home.

Conclusion and observations:

while in HOJ the R-27 behaved badly as well, all I had to do was to get out of the way and the missile only made minor adjustments to follow me, they make near missies but do not detonate.

AMRAAM HOJ shots have a high rate of misses, wich doesnt surprise me since passive ECM homing is a bad way to calculate target position.

Waiting burn through is a far better way to ensure kill and I could do usualy at 20 miles sometimes less sometimes a little more.

Chaff and flares and AI are improved indeed. AI doges now as well.

Dont be fooled into start running away immidiatly after you hear incoming missile warning, by the time you hear it the missile could be very well so far off your true position that it will have to turn hard to go after you, keep throwing chaff and it will only have a fuzzy idea where you are, thus those near missies. Inside burn range you have again the advantage.

This is where the AMRAAM is at their best and they ARE lethal.

I'm talking about shots at less than 10 miles missing ... well within burn through. Interesting about you multi-shot result ... I marked and fired at 4 23s and 3 missiles went after the one target! We are talking 1.1 here right?

I agree with the HOJ shot comment, you can watch the AA-10s fly by with jammer on ... then once in a while one will loop round behind you and bang!

1.1 DEMO yes...If your missing shots at 10 miles...well wtf is going wrong?! That is wierd, unless your trying high speed chases and sharp angle shots...

A head on shot I can easely get an AMRAAM kill without even lock before launch. I have been testing further.

oh and since I have ace settings it includes missile bar full right as well.

Hmmm ... I always leave the bar as is ... 50/50 ... perhaps you are seeing overly effective missiles because of this - try 50/50.

actualy 100 is more realistic thats why your missing shots

Could be ... I don't think ED ever published a most accurate setting ...

Hi,

I dont think the Russian radars are that hard to operate - I think it also has something to do with what aircraft you fly the most. Basically with the new accurate modelling of the Russian radars, you have 3 search modes:

* Encounter: for maximum search range in head-on aspect.

* Pursuit: specifically for searching targets at rear aspect.

* Automatic: combination of the two - provides a shorter search range in head-on engagements, but is easier to use because you dont have to switch search mode in case the target turns tail.

* SNP(TWS): works basically like the "automatic" search mode, with the added tracking > target priortisation and auto lock-on functions. It provides the advantage of allowing you to lock a target without entering STT mode until last moment before missile launch - which means that you wont alert the target until then and will continiue to see other contacts while tracking the selected target - i.e. "track-while-scan".

Once you get familiar with the purpose of these modes, and set up the command for cycling them to your HOTAS system, it is IMHO actually very easy to use them :) . The HOJ mode is selected automatically when a contact is jamming, so there is not much "operation" involved with this - other than as GG mentioned - not to take the "shoot cue" seriously, but instead use a combination of the RWR and guesswork to figure out when your missile is in range for a HOJ shot.

I personally find the F-15 radar much harder to work with - but I am sure thats because I dont use it enough :cool:

Look at your RWR, the power bar should give you rough distane to the emitter, depenant on the emitter's power level (so a Mig would show the same power level as a Su-27 at HALF the distance, since its radar is weaker), which will allow you to set the expected range.

Hmm I dont know about that GG - the MiG-29´s N019 radar has the same emitter output as the Su-27´s N001 radar. ;) . What makes the N019 radar "weaker"(shorter range) than the N001 radar, is its smaller 700 mm antenna diameter versus some 1075 mm of the N001 - i.e. the N019 can pick up a weak return signal at a shorter distance than N001.

So the N019 radar will be able to detect you at shorter range than the N001 would, but your RWR should be able to pick up the radar emmission of a MiG-29 at the same range as that of an Su-27.....same emitter power - the Su-27 just makes better use of it with its larger antenna.

Just a little nitpick :)

- JJ.

The MiG's radar is not modelled in that fashion. I've done tests to show where bandits show up on TEWS in the F-15 at known, same distances. The MiG appears farther away from center on the TEWS than the Su or 15 at the same distance. This would indicate a weaker radar emitter, would it not?

Again, not arguing real world, just providing info regarding LOMAC.

Thanks, I'm familiar with the 3 new search modes and TWS. This is all good information.

Does anyone know the emitter output of each plane? for example. If a f-15 is using its radar. When I see it's about half the intensity on the RWR. I would say the f-15 is about 90-100km away. What if its a Su-27, Su-33, Mig 29 and so on.

Any good 1.1 tutorial tracks out there, excluding the training tracks?

The MiG's radar is not modelled in that fashion. I've done tests to show where bandits show up on TEWS in the F-15 at known, same distances. The MiG appears farther away from center on the TEWS than the Su or 15 at the same distance. This would indicate a weaker radar emitter, would it not?

Yes it would and thats what puzzles me - because it isnt :) .

- JJ.

Thanks, I'm familiar with the 3 new search modes and TWS. This is all good information.

 

Does anyone know the emitter output of each plane? for example. If a f-15 is using its radar. When I see it's about half the intensity on the RWR. I would say the f-15 is about 90-100km away. What if its a Su-27, Su-33, Mig 29 and so on.

Well the N001 radar(Su-27 and Su-33), N019(MiG-29) and N019M(MiG-29S) all have around 1Kw average and 5kw peak emitter output. I dont know about the AGP-63(of the F-15) - but I heard 5kw peak output, so it would be very similar.

So "in my book" this would mean that the signal strength picked up by your RWR at a particular range should be roughly the same for all of them.

The Zashlon radar(MiG-31) and AWG-9(F-14) have much more powerful emitters though.

- JJ.

Yes it would and thats what puzzles me - because it isnt :) .

The MiG has a smaller antenna diameter. This means that its transmitted power is spread out more in space. The Su-27 will focus more of it on the target's RWR and thus appear stronger.

-SK

The MiG has a smaller antenna diameter. This means that its transmitted power is spread out more in space. The Su-27 will focus more of it on the target's RWR and thus appear stronger.

 

-SK

Would this mean that since the emission is spread out more in space, it has a larger scan zone?