Hey ED! Your Momma!

Why is he pushing it. It sound to me that he pinning the tail on ED's donkey. If he gets banned over that statement then it just shows you are silencing someone looking for the truth. If thats the case, then screw this place. :icon_frow

 

Read the forum rules!

 

Accusing Eagle Dynamics of dishonesty is a case of stepping *far* over the line of what is acceptable behaviour on this forum.

 

- JJ.

I don't seem to be affected by all this? I fire up Lock On, and it plays like it always did.;)

With Colt's logic UBI owes me $35 on FarCry. I paid $50 for it over a year ago and now it's $15 at Best Buy.

 

Caveat Emptor, Galen Jr.

We interrupt this flamewar for a breaking SwingKid interview with the PR rep of... Evolved Games!

 

SK: Thank y - hey, wait a minute... weren't you the same guy here yesterday doing PR for Eagle Dynamics?

 

 

CA: Hello, my name is Ali and I'm from Evolved Games. And I would just like to say - there are NO problems with StarForce. Whatsoever.

 

SK: Yeah yeah enough with that already, nobody cares. Ok so what really happened here? Did Evolved Games just burn a copy of NaturalPoint's Flaming Cliffs CD, or download it from ED's site instead of the 1.02 patch "by mistake," or make some kind of secret deal with ED..? Come on everybody wants to know - what's going on here? Where did you guys get Flaming Cliffs?

 

CA: Please, don't be ridiculous. Flaming Cliffs is a Su-25T add-on for the Evolved Games flight simulator, "Lock On: Modern Air Combat." How could we steal an add-on for our own product?!?

 

SK: What? Lock On isn't your product, it's ED's. You guys don't even list it as one of your products on your site.

 

CA: Evolved Games has a diverse range of entertainment products for the X-Box and PlayStation 2. Like, JUDGE DREDD: Dredd vs. Death.

 

SK: Yeah.

 

CA: Exactly.

 

SK: No, I mean - exactly.

 

CA: Yeah.

 

...

 

SK: No, I mean, if it's YOUR product, ok so what now, are YOU the guys now developing the v1.11 patch? Can you tell us if maybe the quantity of flares has changed?

 

CA: Quantity of... What? There are NO FLARES in Baghdad! That's just... crazy, flare propaganda.

 

SK (closing notebook): Weeell, that's all we have time for today. Tune in next time when we interview... Xicat Interactive?

 

-SK

Breaking news............. ED is asking for my go ahead on every business decision they make from here on out.

 

Pay attention people, I'm in charge now. Step back and no one gets hurt.

We interrupt this flamewar for a breaking SwingKid interview with the PR rep of... Evolved Games!

 

SK: Thank y - hey, wait a minute... weren't you the same guy here yesterday doing PR for Eagle Dynamics?

 

 

-SK

 

We interrupt this flamewar for a breaking SwingKid interview with the PR rep of... Evolved Games!

 

SK: Thank y - hey, wait a minute... weren't you the same guy here yesterday doing PR for Eagle Dynamics?

 

 

CA: Hello, my name is Ali and I'm from Evolved Games. And I would just like to say - there are NO problems with StarForce. Whatsoever.

 

SK: Yeah yeah enough with that already, nobody cares. Ok so what really happened here? Did Evolved Games just burn a copy of NaturalPoint's Flaming Cliffs CD, or download it from ED's site instead of the 1.02 patch "by mistake," or make some kind of secret deal with ED..? Come on everybody wants to know - what's going on here? Where did you guys get Flaming Cliffs?

 

CA: Please, don't be ridiculous. Flaming Cliffs is a Su-25T add-on for the Evolved Games flight simulator, "Lock On: Modern Air Combat." How could we steal an add-on for our own product?!?

 

SK: What? Lock On isn't your product, it's ED's. You guys don't even list it as one of your products on your site.

 

CA: Evolved Games has a diverse range of entertainment products for the X-Box and PlayStation 2. Like, JUDGE DREDD: Dredd vs. Death.

 

SK: Yeah.

 

CA: Exactly.

 

SK: No, I mean - exactly.

 

CA: Yeah.

 

...

 

SK: No, I mean, if it's YOUR product, ok so what now, are YOU the guys now developing the v1.11 patch? Can you tell us if maybe the quantity of flares has changed?

 

CA: Quantity of... What? There are NO FLARES in Baghdad! That's just... crazy, flare propaganda.

 

SK (closing notebook): Weeell, that's all we have time for today. Tune in next time when we interview... Xicat Interactive?

 

-SK

 

 

Worth reading..

 

Thanks for sharing.. :icon_jook

With Colt's logic UBI owes me $35 on FarCry. I paid $50 for it over a year ago and now it's $15 at Best Buy.

 

Caveat Emptor, Galen Jr.

 

When Ubi released FarCry did it also announce the exact date it would drop in price? No, but they called it FarCry:Extreme! And when you emailed Ubi and posted on their forums about it the only response you get is made through a respected third party who says he was told by Ubi that Extreme was not FarCry, but an older version with less features.

 

Then 4 months after you paid $50 for it, you found out Extreme IS FarCry.

 

Certainly you could have still been willing to pay $50 rather than wait 4 months...but wouldn't you rather have made that choice based on all the information?

 

*note this post is a complete work of fiction, and is in no way meant to characterize any actual companies or business practices*

Colt40five,

 

This is the last time I am going to say it - quit the accusations and wait for the official statement from ED.

 

If you do, you will save yourself from looking stupid with your conspiracy theory....and remain a member of this forum.

 

- JJ.

 

When Ubi released FarCry did it also announce the exact date it would drop in price? No, but they called it FarCry:Extreme! And when you emailed Ubi and posted on their forums about it the only response you get is made through a respected third party who says he was told by Ubi that Extreme was not FarCry, but an older version with less features.

 

Then 4 months after you paid $50 for it, you found out Extreme IS FarCry.

 

Certainly you could have still been willing to pay $50 rather than wait 4 months...but wouldn't you rather have made that choice based on all the information?

 

*note this post is a complete work of fiction, and is in no way meant to characterize any actual companies or business practices*

Must be that time of month when it gets real cold and lonely in the basement. :D

SIGH....Let's not jump to conclusions.

 

Let's look at what we do know. Someone from Ubi cut a deal with Evolved to provide the rights to publish a Lock On: Gold. That person made the mistake of assuming that the V1.1 content was included when it was not. Evolved proceeded with that assumption and even "borrowed" screenshots and text descriptions from Eagle's website that were provided to retailer sites like EB Games.

 

When people like me and Matt Wagner saw this product being advertised we contacted our friends at TFC/Eagle. I even contacted some people I know with Ubi Soft in the U.S. office. Nobody I spoke with at either TFC/ED or Ubi knew about the Gold product at that time. TFC/ED informed me that they had not granted any rights to Evolved or Ubi Soft for the V1.1 content. Remember, the V1.1 upgrade was created independent of Ubi Soft. I was told that TFC/ED was going to attempt to contact Evolved and Ubi Soft to find out what was happening. It was then discovered that someone within Ubi Soft, in their UK office, I believe, was indeed working a deal with Evolved. It was a standard deal to move older product to another publisher/distributor that specialized in putting out older titles to the market. It happens all the time in the publishing business. I don't know the details about the specific deal that Ubi was making but I would not be surprised if it was Evolved that approached Ubi looking for older product in the first place.

 

That's all the factual stuff I knew when I posted what I have these past few months regarding this matter.

 

 

*****WARNING: SPECULATION BELOW*************

My speculation is, and note that I do not have any of the factual details beyond what I wrote above, that, upon learning of the deal between Ubi and Evolved, TFC/ED must have reached an agreement with Evolved to provide Evolved with the rights to the V1.1 content.

 

I suspect, again this is my best guess, that Evolved was committed to provide product to their retail customers by a certain time and needed to get the boxes shipped out. That means that they most likely rushed the mastering and put out a disk with the only master that Ubi Soft has in their archive, the V1.01 full install. Ubi Soft never made a V1.02 full version master. There is also no integrated version of Lock On that contains the entire game and the V1.1 content. The second disk that comes in the box most likely contains the basic upgrade version of V1.1 Flaming Cliffs that Eagle has been selling online or it is the version that Naturalpoint is selling on disk. Evolved must have just mastered a disk with either of those versions which explains why most people are having problems with the Starforce protection and have to contact Starforce to get a new code. Does anyone know if a Starforce activation code is provided in the documentation in the Gold box? What do the installation instructions actually say? Is there any documentation at all in the Lock On: Gold box?

 

So, the good news is that a full version albeit disjointed and poorly mastered, of Lock On with the V1.1 upgrade is now available in the traditional retail market and can be found on the shelves of retailers.

 

The bad news is that the mastering process was totally unprofessional because an older version of the simulation was thrown in the box with another disk containing the V1.1 upgrade apparently without proper documentation or activation codes. There is no integrated installation routine and, obviously, little or no QA done to ensure the thing actually installs properly. I'll bet there was no testing at all. The burden of making the standard V1.01 install upgraded to V1.1 is placed on the user. This is bad form, poor execution, and failed planning on Evolved's part. It's also obvious that Ubi, who made the original deal with Evolved, took no interest in ensuring the master was proper or functioned properly.

 

The other bad news is that this whole affair created a confusing situation for the community who want to support TFC/ED's efforts but are in the dark as to the validity of this product. Also, the obvious lack of coordination between Ubi Soft, TFC/ED, NaturalPoint, and Evolved Games makes all the parties look like totally unprofessional. Despite the obvious schedule commitments and pressure on Evolved to ship, an integrated master with one installation routine should have been created.

 

It is my belief, again, this is my opinion, that everyone involved had good intentions and that no one was trying to take advantage. I am confident that when this Gold product was first advertised TFC/ED was not in the loop at all with what Ubi and Evolved were doing. Hell, it's also obvious that Ubi Soft did not coordinate within their organization! As it stands now, if an agreement has indeed been worked out, then in the long run TFC/ED benefits with the continued sales of Lock On in the traditional retail channels.

 

Note that ED has lowered the cost of the V1.1 upgrade prior to the Gold version being made available. I am told that Naturalpoint was going to lower their price for the V1.1 upgrade as well, but their website still has it listed at $29.99.

 

I believe that TFC/ED will clear things up with either a press release or an online posting. I sure hope so. It is in TFC/ED's best interest to be more responsive and forthcoming with information. Let's hope they see it that way. As I have stated multiple times here and to my friends at TFC/ED, they need to improve their communications with the community.

 

In summary, having the complete simulation to include V1.1 in one package for less than thirty bucks is good news. It's just that the process used to get that product out to market was flawed.

 

You're all entitled to your opinions and your right to make the choice to buy or not to buy products. But at the end of the day, Ubi, TFC/ED, or Evolved Games are not obligated to provide all their business plans or details of their respective dealings to the public.

 

I'm just glad to see Lock On being sold again

Colt40Five,

 

I appreciate your concerns, but you are getting too worked up over this one. Chill. Wait for the official word.

 

Carl

Thanks Carl.

 

Does anyone know if this 1.1 is like the Naturalpoint Starforce? - or will the buyer have to do it online?

 

All this doesn't bother me too much - whichever is easiest to get my friends started in on Lomac is important to me, the easier to get started - the better for Lomac IMO

I don't actually have a copy of LO:Gold so I can't say how the Starforce configuration works.

 

It's obvious that this product was thrown together without any coherent installation plan or scheme.

 

I'm curious how Evolved Games intends to provide tech support.

IMHO

 

F4 sucks, hands down. The flight model is nice, but the gfx on Asteroids were better. The strings used as missle exhaust are riduculous. I wish I sat at the weekly Project Update meeting when the graphics team came in and said 'Even though we have the technology, customer base, tools, know how, time, etc, lets not do decent gfx... whats everyone think?'

 

Who ever nodded their head 'yes' shorted you and relyed on your trust to get him & his shareholders the buck. F4 fans are sticking up for someone who could give a rats ass about you & yours. Their product shows without a doubt how money drives the product more than anything else.

 

Sure, the Russkies want money, just like all of us do, except for a couple of things with in our community that has made and keeps the LOMAC enthusiasts flying:

 

The passion of flying does not exsist in F4 producers like it does in LOMAC. It shows in their work, hands down. Saying 'I like the flight model, AND I can live with gfx' is ridiculous. I own the product. The gfx arent just bad, they SUCK. Air to Gnd missions are a joke because gfx SUCK. You have no visual clarity because the gfx SUCK. They didnt have to SUCK. They choose to deliver a product that was not as good as it could have been....on purpose.

 

Hats off to the ED team for making those of us who dont get to really fly 29's and 15's get as close to it as we probably ever will, and to continue to give us detail, functionality and continued additions to this excellent, complex and challenging product....whose gfx don't SUCK.

 

 

'Rock'

 

 

 

Bagging on the Russkies because they dont market like you expect, (and LP did a HORRIBLE HORRIBLE job there) is typical short sighted American attitude. They dont do stuff like we do, get over it. And Ill bet ya 5-to-1 they dont want too.

Evolved must have just mastered a disk with that online version which explains why most people are having problems with the Starforce protection and have to contact Starforce to get a new code. Does anyone know if a code is provided in the documentation in the Gold box?

I've saw someone talking about SF from second disk of LO GOLD shows message about "disk not recognized" and nobody talk about "activation of LO GOLD" and also content of second disk of LO GOLD is very similar to NP's CD except LO GOLD include 2 fixes, so I think LO GOLD uses SF - CD based protection, but Evolved didn't properly master a correct SF disk, since close communication with SF necessary for this.

I agree w/your F4/AF assessment. Fatman over at CWOS sent me his copy, he was unhappy with it. I like all the button pushing and stuff, but there's alot more wrong w/the product than just how ugly the graphics are. I can't use antialiasing w/out the mouse cursor disappearing behind the right cockpit panels. Even at 1600x1200 the jaggies are insane.

 

ED is headed in the right direction. I hope that 1.2 comes w/a labor intensive control and flight model. I hope there is a campaign generator. F4's is always touted as being fantastic but all I'm seeing in the F4 forums are complaints about it. Nothing is perfect but I think that the future will hold some fantastic stuff for all simmers. ED seems to be heading in the right direction.

Flying Falcon 4 is like riding a Harley Davidson, if you have to ask why we do it then you'd never understand.

 

Also, the Lead Pursuit developers are F4 fans and they do give a rats ass.

 

I hope LOMAC gets a campaign engine and add multirole fighters, then more of the F4 masses may change their ways. Hey F4 was not built in a day or a year it keeped evolving and that is what LOMAC needs to do.

Fine... then go drive your falcon of a cloud !!!

 

LP is still not getting my money. I will not go back in time, because you think flying Falcon 4.0 in a new package is hip..... I rather give my money to XSI, for our future sim enjoyment..

What's for sure is that the simmers community is a demanding market, my goodness!

 

If ED just forgot about us whyners and just released an FPS they would make tons of money without complaints.

 

Listen guys, I bought all of them (like most of us, if i'm right): SFP1, WOV, IL2:PF, Lockon, FC1.1 and F4:AF. I just enjoy playing them all: flying the Phantom in WOV, the Viper in F4:AF, the Flanker, Mig-29 and F-15C in FC 1.1, my favourite in IL2:PF being somewhat surprisingly the Spitfire.

 

It costs me less than a fifth of the budget my kids are waisting on Playstation II and all these FPS/RPG (b.t.w. Battlefield 2 is fantastic!).

 

So for me the plain truth is: if I find Lockon Gold in the shop, knowing that ED gets some return from it, I buy. Even though I have the game already. There are so few simmers, I think those who want the sector to survive have to do an effort.

 

I find it very important that the product remains on the shelves and keeps attracting new customers. OK, at lower prices many of them will be kiddies, so what? They grow up, you know!

 

I didn't even know about IL2 before I bought a copy at far reduced price of the first version. Know, I will buy every release they make. Same holds for ED.

I'm currently working on getting F4AFs FAC feature to work, I have to admit I am impressed by the work that LP put into it. I'm also finding it fun with the new ATO features, hopefully the lockon successor will feature such things as lockons successor has alot in common with AF in terms of DC, mission type and avionics. For such an old flight sim it certainly has done well.

Funny how this thread started on a topic of LockOk Gold mystery and ended up on (as usual, beaten to death) Falcon vs LockOn :D

Funny how this thread started on a topic of LockOk Gold mystery and ended up on (as usual, beaten to death) Falcon vs LockOn :D

 

The Lock On/Flanker vs Falcon arguments are stupid.

The Lock On/Flanker vs Falcon arguments are stupid.

 

 

That's true. Lock On is way better..;)

I posted this over at SimHQ a while back...

 

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I've been reading this thread and the one locked over at the LOMAC forum before it got locked a bit ago. I keep wishing people would not try and compare these two sims always with the notion of having to bash one over the other. Both games, in hindsight, deserve their own standalone accolades and criticisms. They are just far too dissimilar to try to compare them.

 

LOMAC is an incredible sim, and provides the closest thing most people will ever get to experiencing the modern air combat environment between individual aircraft and the respective tactics needed to fly them. Nowhere else can you test different scenarios of so many various aircraft platforms and their tactics against each other. Where else can you fly a Mig or a Sukuoi?

 

Falcon AF is much more of a theater warfare simulation with an incredible flight simulation sitting on top of a dynamic battlefield in all of its complexities. Nowhere else can you test different scenarios of so many various theaters and situations against each other. Falcon AF does a superb job of letting you experience the dynamics of a theater level war as an individual pilot operating within that particular conflict. The point of view, the scope, the venue, the decisions, everything is completely different.

 

Both games, in their own ways, Falcon AF through its dynamic campaign system and LOMAC through its powerful mission editor provide a really wonderful sandbox in which you can experiment and play with all manner of hypthetical scenarios and different weapon systems in a pretty accessible manner.

 

What I find ironic and troubling (but then again, not surprising) is that flight sim fans shouldn't be putting down either game, but rather celebrating that they have TWO superb fast mover flight sims, offering very different experiences and opportunities, on the market. Anyone who calls themselves a flight combat sim enthusiast who doesn't have both sims/games on their hard drive is depriving themselves.

 

We should be so lucky to even experience modern combat flying to the level we can on the personal PC.

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